French Students Tortured and Stabbed to Death in London
By LanceKates Posted in Archived — Comments (49) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Two French exchange studens were found dead in a flat they lived at in London.
Laurent Bonomo and Gabriel Ferez were stabbed 250 times in thier home.
It is believed that they had been torturd for hours beforehand.
Their attacker is suspected of being a "crazed, drug addicted burglar."
The attacker then set the flat on fire and ran away.
What a horrible thing to do to two 23 year old students.
Thank you for noting that.
I had originally typed in "What is missing from this picture that could have let these two 23 year old students have a fighting chance?" but then deleted it so as to not be making political hay out of such a horrible event.
You are correct though. England got rid of guns so as to avoid violent crime.
Looks like, for these two anyway, that decision on behalf of the government was a deadly one.
----------------------
Dependence is Slavery.
"England got rid of guns so as to avoid violent crime."
And they were replaced with CCTVs. Now honestly, what kind of criminal is going to be scared by a little TV camera, when one could simply spray paint over the lens?
-----------------------------------
4.62, 0.51
Also note that cameras do not prevent crime unless the criminal doesn't want his or her picture taken.
A camera only records crime for later use in punishment.
The English government has removed the ability of her citizens to defend themselves, and has put up cameras to keep track of the mayhem.
A firearm, and the protected right to use it, prevents crime, when the law-abiding citizen is allowed to keep and bear, as was the hope here in the United States.
A hope that, like the Right, is infringed upon by the Federal and State (and city) governments, as decided by men and women protected by armed guards.
----------------------
Dependence is Slavery.
"Dependence is Slavery." You are exactly right when you observe this. Those who would want to take firearms away from us (I don't currently own one) want to do so, not because they want to reduce crime (there are more effective ways to do this, eg Guiliani's broken window policy), but because they want to make the citizenry reliant upon them for protection. That way, they increase their power. Remember: Power isn't always about who holds the highest office, it is about who imposes his will the most.
-----------------------------------
4.62, 0.51
Yup.
And to make sure that they not only have the power, but power without accountability, the police have been determined, by the courts, to NOT be required to help you in a time of emergency.
So, the way to defend yourself is removed AND nothing is put in to replace it.
As the saying goes: I carry a gun because a cop won't fit in my pocket.
----------------------
Dependence is Slavery.
...before someone turned this into a gun control/right-to-carry thread. Didn't take long.
I purposely did not connect this crime to gun control. I did say what I believe about unalienable rights and freedom. If you don't like it, then you don't like me.
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
I just was hoping that the thread would go somewhere else than talking about guns. When I saw guns in the first comment, I just couldn't hold back my reaction.
I admit I jumped a bit quickly; your comment was restrained. Please don't take this as somehow my not liking you.
Do you have a problem with people upset at the concept of Gun Control?
Does it bother you that people look at stories of horrible things like this and make connections between the violence despite gun control there and the promises that violence will go down if we just introduce more gun control here?
Though I did not make this post specifically about gun control, it is an easy connection to make, as it is a glimpse into the future of THIS country if we continue to place more legislation on firearms, which only affect the law-abiding citizens, NEVER the criminals.
----------------------
Dependence is Slavery.
Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85
We could turn the gun control issue into one like the War on Drugs.
"What kind of person would want to own something that could kill children at 100 yards, anyway?"
That sort of thing.
More centralized control.
More laws.
More police.
More prisons.
What kind of person would disagree if not someone who wants the ability to kill children at 100 yards?
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
Yeah, but even then....
I just don't see "The American Public have the right to shoot up with heroin whenever they want."
But I do see a specific right to keep and bear arms.... one that doesn't require inclusion by the 9th Amendment.
So I don't know that it is an apt comparison, however I understand where you're coming from.
However, let's not threadjack for the sake of continuing the drug debate, ok?
----------------------
Dependence is Slavery.
Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85
He was drug-crazed and the victims didn't have the ability to carry concealed weapons.
We can also talk about how the perp's brain evolved from a lesser species, and we'll have the trifecta.
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
Heh.
Evolution, drugs and firearms.
Reminds me of a shirt I love, but won't buy or wear as it just spreads the stereotype of 'gun nuts' . . . "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms ought to be a store, not a government agency."
----------------------
Dependence is Slavery.
It has pictures of about twenty different kinds of handguns, and above them says "Celebrate Diversity".
Heh, I've seen that one too.
I did see one with a picture of a tank. below it was printed "Victory comes to those strong enough to take it."
----------------------
Dependence is Slavery.
At least he didn't shoot them.
"Would you feel better if dey was pushed outta windas?"
"Would it make you feel any better, little goyle, if dey was pushed out of windas?"
Frankly it's a horrible situation and the only way I can deal with something that revolting is with black humor. It's a little like a post I wrote about six months ago about a home invasion in Haight/Ashbury in San Fran. when a guy broke into a family's home and the owner actually had to leave the premises and try to find the police, who were fixing a flat tire on their cruiser and didn't want to be bothered.
But really one of the reasons I love being an NRA member is receiving the American Rifleman and reading the Armed Citizen reports each month: these are the stories you don't hear in the MSM for the very simple reason that it's not the message about gun ownership they want to convey.
But anyone can search the NRA/ILA's Armed Citizen archives dating back to 1958, and it might change a few minds. Like this one from Massachusetts in February of 2008:
Brad Correia and his family had just returned to their home in Rochester, Mass. when a stranger knocked on the door. With his children safe in bed, Mr. Correia tucked his handgun into his pants before answering the door to a disheveled looking stranger who said his car had broken down on the interstate. The Correias invited him into their home and offered the use of their telephone along with warm tea and fresh clothes, but when Mr. Correia began noticing inconsistencies in the man’s story, he called the police and learned the man was a fugitive. Mr. Correia held the fugitive at gunpoint until police arrived. Rochester Police Chief Paul Magee said of Mr. Correia, “I commend the man for his actions. He did what he needed to do, and I am glad it worked out well and nobody got hurt.”
Defend Liberty -- Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
Yesterday, Glenn Beck showed part of the NRA video of the police and sheriff's department confiscating legal guns from law-abiding citizens in New Orleans after Katrina.
I almost joined then and there. The NRA, that is.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
They are 100% totally humorless about the whole guns thing.
I mean, they make most of the folks on here uncomfortable with how much they are humorless about the whole guns thing.
I love them to pieces. (Libertarian Nut, remember)
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
I checked them out and see what you mean.
Like Alan Gura, I am confused by the position of the majority of Jews. Not just about guns, either.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
Site link here: Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership.
I looked through their handbills section: their sublety is at the level of knee to the genitals - beyond Godwin's Law.
You can watch that video on YouTube, and I've posted it a couple of times here at Redstate. It merits being posted again:
In Louisiana, police went around not just violently subduing old ladies by pounding them into walls and floors, they also took lawfully-owned firearms from private citizens with S.W.A.T. weapons, because Ray Nagin's police chief said they should.
The Big Lie, Flagstaff, is a kind of borrowed rhetoric from the drug war applied to guns, except that it happens to be wrong:
"Owning a gun or shooting a gun makes you a violent person or more likely to be a violent person."
It's just not so. I shot guns for three years in high school and I am to this day one of the least violent people you'll ever meet -- and so are my friends.
The other part of the Big Lie happens because if you never publicize the stories of responsible gun owners acting responsibly, and you discourage people from doing so, and don't teach them to do so, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the only ones left owning guns (that the MSM wants to talk about) are the criminals and the irresponsible people.
There is nothing intrinsically more dangerous about owning a firearm and keeping one in your home than there is allowing people to have a stove with natural gas or a gallon of gasoline for that matter, which is thousands of times more powerful than a bullet. We let people go right down to the local gas station and pump a combustible liquid that is literally thousands of times more dangerous than a bullet into the tanks of their automobiles. Somehow people have forgotten that yes, a gun is a potentially dangerous machine -- and a weapon, but it's not intrinsically more dangerous than even electrical wiring. Or concentrated bleach, delivered properly.
It's just a story that people tell in order to try and convince people that they're not capable of owning one responsibly, so they shouldn't try. The overwhelming evidence is that they are perfectly capable, but that doesn't stop the interpretive narrators.
In the most important sense, and even with all of the thousands of pages of amici briefs filed and all the millions of dollars and millions of words expended on the case, D.C. vs. Heller revolved around two very simple and straightforward questions:
1) Does every individual in the United States have a basic right to own a firearm even if they don't serve in a "militia"?
2) Even if that person is a particularly trusted individual, like a security guard for instance -- who is required to carry a firearm while on duty -- should the law in D.C. be allowed to prevent them from owning a firearm in their own home?
The Supreme Court decided that the answer to the first question was "yes" and the second was "no." And that is the way the law should treat that subject: it should respect the intention of the 2nd Amendment. There are lots of people who will add prenumbras and emanations to it, but at the most basic level, that is what the Supreme Court decided, and it was the right decision: it was the only possible decision that invests in The People of this country the kind of respect and responsibility they deserve to have.
Defend Liberty -- Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
Sad to say, it may have been "the only possible decision that invests in The People of this country the kind of respect and responsibility they deserve to have," but it wasn't the only possible decision. If Mr. Kennedy (he doesn't deserve the title, "Justice") had been off his meds as he was on Gitmo, it could easily have gone the other way.
If Obama is elected, things could get very oppressive here, far worse than under Bush and Nagin. (Then I started to say something not very nice.)
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
You're preaching to the choir. I've never thought otherwise.
I had to laugh at Juan Williams last Sunday (twice, because he said it on two different shows). He kept saying that now people will be killing their wives or husbands. I wondered if he wanted to kill his wife, or if she wanted to kill him. My money is on the latter.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
This is a tragedy and I'm ashamed that it happened in the city I lived in for most of my life. These two were doing really valuable medical resarch so the lossgoes beyond them and their families.
However this is an odd story for a gun argument as I'm taking a wild guess that a European student on a three month study visa would have trouble buyinh be allowed to own a Gun if they were studing in the US or am I wrong.
Colorado, I reckon they could pick one up without much ado. Just make it past the background check and waiting period.
New Jersey? Might take a bit longer.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
No, they would have been prohibited persons under Federal law wherever they were.
(Though in most states they probably could have bought black-powder weapons which are not classed as firearms by the Feds).
When the Clinton Ugly Gun Assault Weapons ban was retired, the prediction was that Blood Would Run Red on the Highways of America.
In fact, if you look at the four most publicised shootings in the past several years you find:
1) The D.C. Sniper Case -- perpetrated by a Muslim convert who was disgruntled with his wife.
2) Littleton, Colorado -- Columbine, in which alienated and disaffected students in a high-achievement school district went on a rampage to kill their classmates.
3) The Virginia Tech. shootings -- In which a similarly disgruntled student with a history of mental illness went on a killing spree against his classmates.
4) The DeKalb shootings, in which an otherwise successful student with a history of mental illness who had been enrolled in one of the most overtly Leftist departments in the University decided to shoot up a room full of students.
All of these shootings have a Kafkaesque, leftist quality to them and all of them have been used as a knee-jerk rationale to enact stricter gun legislation. When the freaks freak out, the gun-grabbers are using them as the pretext to take everyone else's guns. It's just that simple.
Remember -- Robert Hinkley tried to kill Ronald Reagan and turned Brady into a vegetable because he was trying to impress JODIE FOSTER.
It's been a while since I've thought about that assassination attempt, and for some reason he reminds me a little of Robert Downey.
Failing to develop any meaningful contact with Foster, Hinckley developed such plots as hijacking an airplane and committing suicide in front of her to gain her attention. Eventually he settled on a scheme to win her over by assassinating the president, with the theory that as a historical figure, he would be her equal. To this end, he trailed President Jimmy Carter from state to state, but was arrested in Nashville, Tennessee on a firearms charge. Penniless, he returned home once again, and despite psychiatric treatment for depression, his mental health did not improve. In 1981, he began to target the newly elected president, Ronald Reagan. It was also at this time that he started collecting information on Lee Harvey Oswald, John F. Kennedy's assassin, whom he saw as a role model.
Defend Liberty -- Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
In all the subsequent years, the Brady Center has used the actions of this insane man as their central justification for taking other people's guns.
Defend Liberty -- Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
During this time ABC had a new comedy series, 'The Greatest American Hero', which starred Ralph Hinkley. Shortly after John Hinkley's attempted assassination ABC cancelled the program with the Hinkley star.
Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business … frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise.Ronald Reagan
Dallas
MASH
Columbo
Three's Company
JR was my hero
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice
I watched it a few times. Actually, the "Hero" was Ralph Hinkley, played by William Katt (son of Barbara Hale (Della Street) and Bill Williams (Kit Carson), and he also played 'Paul Drake, Jr.'). They changed his name to "Ralph Hanley," but it still didn't save the series, which also starred Connie Sellecca and Robert Culp.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
He was an uncomfortable hero, awkward and reluctant, sensitive and kind of afraid of his powers, kind of a spastic superhero who went around trying to right wrongs except that he couldn't fly straight for more than 50 feet or so and crashed spectacularly into things in the manner of the A-Team. He was the Neurotic Superman. Robert Culp was the "Ground Control" for the Superman whose suit didn't fit right:
Look at what’s happened to me,
I can’t believe it myself.
Suddenly I’m up on top of the world,
It should’ve been somebody else.Believe it or not, I’m walking on air.
I never thought I could feel so free.
Flying away on a wing and a prayer.
Who could it be?
Believe it or not it’s just me.It’s like a light of a new day,
It came from out of the blue.
Breaking me out of the spell I was in,
Making all of my wishes come true.Believe it or not, I’m walking on air.
I never thought I could feel so free.
Flying away on a wing and a prayer.
Who could it be? Believe it or not it’s just me.
Defend Liberty -- Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Yeah, he was kind of the flinty, frangible, stressed-out version of Oscar Goldman in the Six Million Dollar Man. It fit the mien of the show very well and coincided with explosion of the Self-Help Industry in the United States, in which basically everyone is screwed up and trying to find "I'm OK, You're OK." through transactional analysis.
Defend Liberty -- Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
Somethings just need to decay quietly.
In Vino Veritas
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice
I learned enough of the vocabulary to be "effective."
In Vino Veritas
Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business … frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise.Ronald Reagan
I'll trade you both my copy of "How to be your own best friend"
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
without being reminded of that theme song.
Actually it wasn't the worst thing on TV by far. Remember "Street Hawk?" The motorcycle that could make perfect right angle turns at 200mph.
Let's leave the TVLand threadjack there for now.
A
as usual, the song remains the same. The right to defend oneself is given by our Creator. I am not saying an armed citizen would have stopped this, or any other specific crime. What I am saying is every man deserves a chance, when government takes that chance away, it takes life away.
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!